The following is a discussion I had with several people about what was contained in the gospel that Jesus preached.
Elias said:
There are several times in the bible where it states that Jesus traveled around and preached "The Gospel of the Kingdom of God".There are a lot of Preachers that identify themselves as a "Preacher of the Gospel". Do they preach the same Gospel that Jesus preached? So just exactly what is the Gospel? Is the gospel everything that is contained in the bible or is it just a certain good news message?
It is my understanding as a result of studying the bible that the gospel that Jesus preached was simply a message to the people. This gospel message informed the people that God had sent His only begotten Son to provide a way of salvation for everyone that had not before existed. The gospel message that Jesus preached was that if a person believed that Jesus was the Son of God they would be saved and inherit eternal life. The gospel message was very simple and did not encompass everything in bible scripture.
The gospel message that Jesus preached was all encompassed in the wording of the scripture of John 3:16:
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life".
Part of that Gospel message that Jesus preached is recorded in Mark 16:16 as follows:
"He that believes and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believes not shall be damned".
This is the simplicity of the gospel that Jesus preached and the apostle Paul spoke of.
The heart of the Christian message is to repent of the sin of unbelief that was passed down to us from Adam and to be baptized in water in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and we would receive the Holy Spirit which gives us eternal life from this life into the next one.
God ordains preachers to preach the gospel and only the gospel. Unless a person has been ordained by God to preach the gospel, the ordination papers received from a Theological Seminary or a Bible School mean nothing.
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life".
Part of that Gospel message that Jesus preached is recorded in Mark 16:16 as follows:
"He that believes and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believes not shall be damned".
This is the simplicity of the gospel that Jesus preached and the apostle Paul spoke of.
The heart of the Christian message is to repent of the sin of unbelief that was passed down to us from Adam and to be baptized in water in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and we would receive the Holy Spirit which gives us eternal life from this life into the next one.
God ordains preachers to preach the gospel and only the gospel. Unless a person has been ordained by God to preach the gospel, the ordination papers received from a Theological Seminary or a Bible School mean nothing.
Person #2 asked the following question.
How does god ordain preachers?
Elias responds to the question.
God ordains certain people to serve in different offices in the church in a number of different ways. There are a number of examples in the bible that demonstrates how God does that.
The calling into service precedes the ordination, which is done when the person is sent to do the work.
Exodus 3:4 God called Moses into service by speaking to him out of a burning bush. At that same time he was ordained to do the work when he was sent into Egypt.
Judges 6:11-16 God called Gideon by sending an angel to speak to him. The calling and the ordination occurred at the same time.
Acts 22:8 Paul the apostle heard the Lord speaking to him out of a bright light from heaven while he was traveling on the road to Damascus. That was his calling. He was ordained when he was baptized and received the Holy Spirit and his instructions from God through Ananias.(Acts 22:14)
Throughout the 4 gospel books: Jesus called his twelve apostles into service by personally calling them as He walked the Earth. The ordination to do the work occurred when they received their instructions from Jesus and received the Holy Spirit.(Acts 2:1-4)
1 Kings 19:12 God spoke to Elijah by way of a still small voice telling Elijah what to do.
God ordains a person when He sends them into service for Him.
The calling into service precedes the ordination, which is done when the person is sent to do the work.
Exodus 3:4 God called Moses into service by speaking to him out of a burning bush. At that same time he was ordained to do the work when he was sent into Egypt.
Judges 6:11-16 God called Gideon by sending an angel to speak to him. The calling and the ordination occurred at the same time.
Acts 22:8 Paul the apostle heard the Lord speaking to him out of a bright light from heaven while he was traveling on the road to Damascus. That was his calling. He was ordained when he was baptized and received the Holy Spirit and his instructions from God through Ananias.(Acts 22:14)
Throughout the 4 gospel books: Jesus called his twelve apostles into service by personally calling them as He walked the Earth. The ordination to do the work occurred when they received their instructions from Jesus and received the Holy Spirit.(Acts 2:1-4)
1 Kings 19:12 God spoke to Elijah by way of a still small voice telling Elijah what to do.
God ordains a person when He sends them into service for Him.
Person
Thank you for answering my question. I have looked them up and read them for myself. Now I want to make sure I understand the point you were trying to make when you said "god ordains preachers."
If you remember, you said:
If you remember, you said:
“God ordains preachers to preach the gospel and only the gospel. Unless a person has been ordained by God to preach the gospel, the ordination papers received from a Theological Seminary or a Bible School mean nothing.”
As I understand it, you are saying that ordination papers mean nothing if one is not ordained by god. Is this correct or were you trying to say something else?
Elias answers
In the Bible, God says that He will give us Pastors according to His own wisdom and only He ordains Pastors in the church. (Ref: Jeremiah 3:15 & Ephesians 4:11)
If God doesn't ordain a person to be a preacher then that person is not approved by God and that person should be considered to be a false preacher. Ordination papers might be recognized by the state and by certain churches in order to get a job, but other than that they are worthless as far as God is concerned.
If man or woman ordains another man or woman into the ministry, they are usurping the authority of God. As is evident in our society, these people ordained by other people are accepted as preachers in their churches, but are considered by God to be false preachers and teachers.
If all of these so called preachers were preaching the same message and supporting the same church doctrines it would be evident that God had ordained them to preach. Consequently, since this is not the case, it is obvious that their ministries do not have God's approval.
God stated in the bible (Ephesians 4:11-14) that He alone puts Pastors, teachers and Evangelists into the church to bring us all into the unity of the faith. It’s obvious that we are not all in the unity of the faith or our churches would all be teaching the same doctrines and they are not.
If God doesn't ordain a person to be a preacher then that person is not approved by God and that person should be considered to be a false preacher. Ordination papers might be recognized by the state and by certain churches in order to get a job, but other than that they are worthless as far as God is concerned.
If man or woman ordains another man or woman into the ministry, they are usurping the authority of God. As is evident in our society, these people ordained by other people are accepted as preachers in their churches, but are considered by God to be false preachers and teachers.
If all of these so called preachers were preaching the same message and supporting the same church doctrines it would be evident that God had ordained them to preach. Consequently, since this is not the case, it is obvious that their ministries do not have God's approval.
God stated in the bible (Ephesians 4:11-14) that He alone puts Pastors, teachers and Evangelists into the church to bring us all into the unity of the faith. It’s obvious that we are not all in the unity of the faith or our churches would all be teaching the same doctrines and they are not.
I am a bit confused about the referenced scriptures. Could you explain where it says that God ordains. I read it as God calls or gives them. Not trying to pick an argument. Just curious.
Person#3 responds with a statement
As I understand it, God calls, but man ordains. One simply becomes aware that God is asking him (or her) to serve Him in a capacity that requires a commitment to sacrificial service beyond that of other followers of Christ. Most of those I know who responded to a genuine call from God wrestled with it, and many tried to run from it. I ran for twelve years.
An excellent example of running from God's call is found in the book of Jonah. Answering God's call is not something one should do lightly; it is a humbling and sobering experience. It will also cost you everything.
Ordination is really nothing more than a confirmation by other believers, including other clergy, that one has been called by God. In that sense, to ordain is to recognize and support what God Himself has already done.
Arrogance and serving God simply do not go together. We are called to be servants, to lay down our lives for the sake of those whom God loves, whether those He loves believe in Jesus or not. As leaders, we do not lead the way the world leads, but by example. People follow because they have encountered and experienced sacrificial love, not because someone has forced them to obey.
We shall know those whom God has truly called by the fruit they produce. Even though the Bible says we can boldly approach the throne of grace, one ought to do so with a sense of awe, wonder, and gratitude...but above all, with a love that is birthed in God's own heart, and reflected by our own.
An excellent example of running from God's call is found in the book of Jonah. Answering God's call is not something one should do lightly; it is a humbling and sobering experience. It will also cost you everything.
Ordination is really nothing more than a confirmation by other believers, including other clergy, that one has been called by God. In that sense, to ordain is to recognize and support what God Himself has already done.
Arrogance and serving God simply do not go together. We are called to be servants, to lay down our lives for the sake of those whom God loves, whether those He loves believe in Jesus or not. As leaders, we do not lead the way the world leads, but by example. People follow because they have encountered and experienced sacrificial love, not because someone has forced them to obey.
We shall know those whom God has truly called by the fruit they produce. Even though the Bible says we can boldly approach the throne of grace, one ought to do so with a sense of awe, wonder, and gratitude...but above all, with a love that is birthed in God's own heart, and reflected by our own.
elias Responds
The part about God calls and man ordains is just the way it is in today’s church world. If man would just wait for God to ordain him after being called, our churches would not be as divided as they are today. Too many of our preachers ordained by man do not know enough of the truth of the bible for God to Himself ordain and send them out into His service. A person must be Called, Prepared and then sent by God. The majorities of those who are called just skip the preparation stage and go out with what they have learned from some other person who was ordained by another person.
Person #2 responds to elias
Now see, here's where I'm struggling to understand. You act like you can tell whether one man has been called by god over another man. The evidence you provide, as I understand it, is that one must hear a voice from god (or an angel or a burning bush, whatever). But when it's a voice from god (or any of those other things), no one else seems to hear it, or see it, it's only in the mind of the person who says he or she heard it. So in the end, this is all about a man or woman doing what they think is right because they heard a voice.
How can you or I or anyone say that one is "truly" called and another person isn't? It sounds like you are saying you know this by what they say about the bible, which means if their interpretation of the bible matches your interpretation, well then, that person was called by god. Do I understand you correctly?
Person #3 responds before elias answers
It can be a real mess when someone who has not been called by God is ordained by man. One of the worst things that can happen to a church is to call a pastor to their pulpit who has not been tested first by the Lord.
Calling someone straight out of seminary who has little or no previous hands-on ministry experience is usually not a very good idea. Better to call them to serve under an experienced older pastor for a season before they get to sit in the big chair.
Calling someone straight out of seminary who has little or no previous hands-on ministry experience is usually not a very good idea. Better to call them to serve under an experienced older pastor for a season before they get to sit in the big chair.
Elias responds to the question
Act like? I don't know what you mean by act like
No one has the ability to judge whether a person has been called by God or not. That is a very private encounter a person has with God with no solid outside evidence for anyone to see.
No one has the ability to judge whether a person has been called by God or not. That is a very private encounter a person has with God with no solid outside evidence for anyone to see.
Quoting Person #2
“The evidence you provide, as I understand it, is that one must hear a voice from god (or an angel or a burning bush, whatever). But when it's a voice from god (or any of those other things), no one else seems to hear it, or see it,”
Elias RespondsYes, that’s absolutely right.
Quoting Person #2
“It’s only in the mind of the person who says he or she heard it. So in the end, this is all about a man or woman doing what they think is right because they heard a voice.”
Elias Responds it’s a little more than in a person's mind. It has to do with what happens in a person's heart, which is almost impossible to explain to someone it has never happened to. So I do not intend to attempt to explain it here. A person who this happens to will absolutely know when it does happen.
Quoting Person #2
“How can you or I or anyone say that one is "truly" called and another person isn't?”
Elias RespondsSee already, you do not recognize the difference between being called and being sent.
Quoting Person #2
“It sounds like you are saying you know this by what they say about the bible, which means if their interpretation of the bible matches your interpretation, well then, that person was called by god. Do I understand you correctly?”
Elias respondsThe bible is of no private interpretation by anyone. Interpretation is a word used by everyone who attempts to justify the difference between what they believe and what someone else believes. There is only one truth about what the bible means. It means what it says in the scriptures and interpretation has nothing to do with it.
Person
Quoting Person #3
“It can be a real mess when someone who has not been called by God is ordained by man. One of the worst things that can happen to a church is to call a pastor to their pulpit who has not been tested first by the Lord.” “Calling someone straight out of seminary who has little or no previous hands-on ministry experience is usually not a very good idea. Better to call them to serve under an experienced older pastor for a season before they get to sit in the big chair.”
Person #2 respondsBut this doesn't really sound particularly profound to me. It's simply logical. I mean, isn't it true of any profession? That you want experienced people? Accountants straight out of college don't become partners immediately for example. So why make it so complicated and mysterious? Can't you just as easily say "it works much better when people in this career field are experienced before they move to the larger job of taking on a church community?"
To think of it the other way, if someone failed, you'd just end up saying, "well, he obviously wasn't called by god." The reason I think this could be a problem is that mistakes could be repeated if no one actually reasons through what happens when there is a failure of some sort.
To think of it the other way, if someone failed, you'd just end up saying, "well, he obviously wasn't called by god." The reason I think this could be a problem is that mistakes could be repeated if no one actually reasons through what happens when there is a failure of some sort.
Quoting elias
“No one has the ability to judge whether a person has been called by God or not. That is a very private encounter a person has with God with no solid outside evidence for anyone to see.”
Person #2 respondsWell, that's what I thought. Thanks for clarifying.
Quoting elias
“It’s a little more than in a person's mind. It has to do with what happens in a person's heart, which is almost impossible to explain to someone it has never happened to. So I do not intend to attempt to explain it here. A person who this happens to will absolutely know when it does happen.”
Person #2 Responds
That's what I've heard before too. Thanks for clarifying.
That's what I've heard before too. Thanks for clarifying.
Quoting elias
“The bible is of no private interpretation by anyone. Interpretation is a word used by everyone who attempts to justify the difference between what they believe and what someone else believes.” “There is only one truth about what the bible means. It means what it says in the scriptures and interpretation has nothing to do with it.”
Person #2 Responds Interpretation has everything to do with it. Otherwise there'd be no controversy at all about the bible or anything in it. You think you are right. Others who disagree think they are right.
Elias responds and ends the discussion
That is just what is wrong in the Church World today. Everyone has an interpretation instead of just saying what the Bible says. If a person is called to preach the Gospel, they should stay with the gospel message that Jesus preached, there is no other gospel message. If a preacher starts preaching or teaching anything else in the bible that has nothing to do with the gospel message that Jesus preached, they are in error.
No comments:
Post a Comment